I’ve got two questions for readers, based on recent headlines from TSMC.
First of all, are TSMCs activities in building out capacity for 3D ICs spurring leading Taiwanese assembly and test houses to increase capacity as well? That’s what’s implied in this news item on CENS.com, which reports that ASE, SPIL and Powertech are all investing heavily in 3D IC R&D manufacturing and capacity. (the fact that these OSAT powerhouses are investing in 3D is not news, but the inspiration for this investment is!)
At first read, you might think that the assembly houses are adding capacity in hopes of capturing TSMC back-end business. But that’s unlikely to be the case, since TSMC has been very vocal about providing end-to-end 3D IC manufacturing. According to the article, IC assemblers say that although TSMC has begun deploying 3D IC packaging capability, it provides the service as a total solution to only high-end customers such as Apple. So it’s more likely that these top tier OSATS are positioning themselves to work with other foundries such as UMC and GlobalFoundries in a collaborative model to provide a viable alternative 3DIC solution to TSMC, and likely at a lower price point.
TSMC has also been making headlines (EE Times) (Electronics Weekly) with its concept of operating single customer fabs so they can better accommodate the supply demands of their larger customers such as Qualcomm. (Except that David Manners reported here in his Electronics News Weekly blog, Mannerisms, that Qualcomm is thinking of buying a 10% share in UMC to secure advance IC fabrications.)
However on Hothardware.com, blogger Joel Hruska, implies that it’s Apple’s business that is the key motivator (even though TSMC has not made any statements to that effect). Hruska goes on to theorize how this arrangement would make sense for Apple, while wreaking havoc on TSMC’s other customers, and perhaps explains why Qualcomm is looking to buy into UMC.
So here’s what I’ve been pondering. If TSMC follows through on this idea, will that be front-end fabs only? Or are they going to include their 3D IC operations (which involve mid-end processing, assembly and test) in that model as well? Because that would be a pretty major investment to add all that 3D IC capacity. Readers, any thoughts on that? ~ F.v.T.
FvT : Thx.
Makes all the sense for Apple to find another leading edge Foundry e,g. TSMC after they had to stay with Samsung 45 nm non HKMG Fab process for the iPad3 but just 3 months later Samsung brought out their own Galaxy S3 with a 32 nm HKMG transistor process ! But I don’t know if Apple going to TSMC would necessarily mean that 3D w/ TSV will be used in Apple processors fabbed at TSMC, now that TSMC 28 nm yield is improving and partitioning Apple’s large SoC die ( quad core processors ) into a 3D stack to improve yield is no longer that crucial.
As to having to use TSVs for Memory bandwdth, power consumption etc. in handhelds you should check out how Sony 3D stacked the processor and DRAM in their Vita handheld Playstation using NO TSVs at all. For many SmartPhone applications such a old tech stack could provide enough bandwidth for the next couple years.
But I would not count out 2.5D Interposers for Tablets because having to drive larger screens / faster games make thermal issues more severe than in Smartphones.
Thanks for the insight Dev, always appreciated! Would you be so kind as to post a link to the Sony process you referenced? I’m sure readers would be interested in reading about it, as would I!
Here you go :
http://www.i-micronews.com/news/Sony-wide-IO-memory-Playstation-Vita,9334.html
Adios
Regarding #3
Dev – Here’s what my be considered confirmation that “TSMC is confident of securing Apple’s foundry contracts for next-generation processors designed around 3D process.” http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_40986.html
Regarding #5, how about going to my original blog:
http://www.electroiq.com/blogs/chipworks_real_chips_blog/2012/07/sony-s-ps-vita-uses-chip-on-chip-sip-3d-but-not-3d.html
Regarding #7
Dick – Thanks for adding your link – it certainly offers more detail! I agree that regardless of the absence of TSVs, this is still a 3D stack.
The post by Yole included a link to the news item back in January, where Sony states they will be including 3D with TSV in the next generation game station GPU/CPU they just haven’t said when that will happen. Here’s the link. http://www.i-micronews.com/news/Sony-plans-use-TSV-gaming-station-CPU-GPU,8196.html
FvT :
Yes, I too had seen this Taiwan article on TSMC 3D yesterday but it did not sound too convincing for 3D in the near future, especially when TSMC itself was quoted repeating the difficulties of 3D and seemed more confident about 2.5D. So phones with 3D hitting the streets, perhaps in a couple of years. The departure from rational egineering could come from Samsung, if they decide to stack it all together using all their in-house capabilities into one of their phones / tabs to get the bragging rights. Apple has to be ready for that. So TSMC would be working on that to provide Apple a non – Samsung foundry option – though there may not be any HVM ( > 1 million per week ) of 3D TSV in the near future.
FvT :
You have written above ” .. TSMC doing 3D for Apple .. ” . Makes a lot of sense for TSMC to use this capability to wean Apple away from Samsung Foundry service. But is there any hard reference for this ?
Adios
Dev – Hard reference, no, but lots of conjecture and implication, aa noted above parenthetically “…even though TSMC has not made any statements to that effect…. with the blog post link to Hothardware.com. But I can attest to lots of offline discussion from the conference circuit – but of course neither TSMC nor Apple would confirm the rumors until they are ready to make an announcment.